Why do I mistrust so much Christian “conservativism”?
1) It usually wants to “conserve” a very recent version of history or Christianity (theirs!)
2) It is almost always tied to money and power, which seems very unlike Jesus.
3) It loves the status quo too much, which is really to love one’s own comfort, security, and status.
4) It seldom loves the poor or the outsider, which Jesus consistently loved.
5) It invariably makes “pevlic issues” the test case instead of what Jesus consistently emphasized: power, arrogance, pride, superiority, delusion, and hypocrisy.
6) But most of all, because conservatives tend to be so humorless, unable to smile, and can very seldom critique or naturally laugh at their own limitations, biases, or blindnesses. (Tell me one!) It takes way too much energy to protect the
whole and total truth and there is so little joy or freedom left for the rest of life.
7) To be fair, many progressives and liberals are just as bad.
Christian Conservatives seldom Conserve the Real Tradition
Advertisement
awesome!
Maybe in anothe post you can elaborate on the Real Tradition because it feels like so much is man made and superfluous. What is wrong with just prayer and meditation? You see a lot of the conservative evangelicals stressing direct relationship with God without sacrements and man made rituals, which I think is good. But then you have a whole bunch of other not-so-good stuff going on. Oprah is interviewing Joel Osteen who was named “Americas Pastor”. I don’t know why but I never took to him. He’s very “fake positive” which I think is worse than being negative. This is from my perspective, but there seems to be a theme in a lot of the religion today that despenses positivity to the point it is just plain denial or even ridiculous. Like you say, there is no room for mystery, the dark side of things, ect. If don’t walk out of church because of an anti-gay message, then I find myself walking because of overly-positive people who can dispense a scripture or affirmation for your problem, or give you a quick answer and that’s that. Or I walk out because I can’t hear how people are in hell. Or how I shouldn’t receive communion because _____ (insert ignorance here). It really baffles me. I’d like to hear your take on some of this….
Thanks.
To me Oprah is Oprah and that is ok. Either Jesus was the son of God or He was a looney tune He gives us no choice. I believe this and C S Lewis has given me the same qoute. Gandi said he thought Christainity was a great thing but he never meet one. That is because he did not understand we are all the body of Christ he was looking for one not the whole community. Christ is in all but all individually are not Christ to me for then I would be but I believe I am a part. Just a thought ! Your friend G1 G1
Remember, a wonderful teacher has told us, it’s not an either/or world. Live your life with an open heart! find and connect with the divine spark in everyone you meet!! Don’t worry about finding “the” answer. Remember, life is full of paradoxes, everyday and “everything belongs”. See, even this comment is not an “answer” or “the” answer! It’s just a comment!! Take care! I am going hiking in 10 minutes with my grandson and am going to enjoy the beautiful sunshine, the trees and the birds. I won’t understand half of what he says but I don’t need to.
Beautifully stated!!
You say it so well!!!! Thanks.
I am miffed I simple do not understand what is being said. Why the labels and the conservative or liberal and why labeling anyone. Why the this against that or my group verse your group. Love does not lable it accepts and things change at Gods’ time. I had a dear friend for 30 years and now is dead. He went to a ball game with me and when Harols Baines hit a home run he did not stand up and cheer as the rest of us did at the time. He told me he does not clap for the evil racist word people. I laughed and said you have to be kidding. After years of being together he changed and his labeling changed because God helped him see the light thru his friends. He was a growing person and kept growing. All of us with the help of God can learn if we may choose to. Why African Americans why not just people of God. I am just a child of God as others are also. What about Paul who was a Christian Killer was he not save by our Lord. I just truly do not understand the point being made. Jesus saves and saves in His time and space. If he saved me He is able to save anyone I know. Catagories cause separation and that leads to hate. Love includes and also includes conservatives and liberals. Love changes our lens thru which we see. Pauls eyes where peeled of his false beliefs. We are all children of God no more no less. We must all give God His chance to save. I believe He has the whole world in His hands.My center of belief. Proverbs 3 3:6. For me I must always trust in God for he is all! Your friend G1
Hello, GI
“Why African Americans? Why not just people of God?”
My enslaved African Ancestors thought of themselves as people of God (by whatever name) long before they were brought to these shores. To feel and understand that one is a person of God is the ideal. However,
the reality is that brutal, inhumane treatment during the period of American enslavement tested that ideal for many (as it did for the Hebrews who grew angry with Moses for leading them away from Egypt. They felt that God had deserted them because they could not see the big picture.)
So, the various names I have been called, “colored,” “Negro,” “black,” “Afro-American”, “African American,” and “a person of the color,” are based in the harsh reality of the abusive treatment that occured at the hands of ‘the other.” Unfortunately, there are many “persons of God” who need to deny or pretend that these facts have any relevance for today.
The good news is that while my ancestors were being beat, raped and brutalized as they worked in the fields to give this country an economic jumpstart, many of them decided to call on Jesus and hence learned that they were /are people of God regardless of the treatment they endured. Many of us do not doubt that we are people of God, regardless of what we are called or how we have been treated. If we had not known that we were/are children of God, we would never have survived the horrors of our treatment to produce the likes of a Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
Peace and blessings.
While I too struggle with conservatism, its fundamental theology and agenda (we have them here in Canada too!!), I have to wonder about this post. It seems to be a tad heavy and # 7 seems to be a throw away to try and balance the ship. What I take from it though as a grace, is our collective need to lighten up. Besides being part of the problem, rather than the solution, for the furtherance of the God’s reign, we can also be real bores. Jesus, in the flesh, must have been wonderful to be around, full of joie de vivre, great stories, and probably a laugh a minute. After all he was in love, deeply and “madly” in a committed, intimate relationship with God. Christ is that way too!! In love with us. God only knows why!! Thanks as always Richard.
Amen! Thanks again.
so in the end it’s a both/and situation with each side looking through it’s own dualistic lens. the goal for me (and it’s a difficult one) each day is to try to live in the space of non- dualism. it is the way i/we give honor to each other’s stance, even when opposing it, that is the sign of living out the message of Jesus.
I moved from a town because of the conservative element in the Catholic church. I just couldn’t stand to be in the pews with that group of pious hypocrites. You described them to a T. I moved to the town for personal reasons but was immediately sorry. Unfortunately it took me five years to be able to get out. The sad part was that the pastor was an ofm who tried desperately to bring light to these people but they just dug in their heals and stayed in their fearful place. The pastor, who when I think about it, was on the same plane as you Richard, was often chagrined and finally retired so I got out of Dodge. Those people can drag you down.
Thanks for sharing “yourself” in your books and these posts. I finally feel validated in my “progressive Catholicism” after reading “Falling Upward”. I’m an 80 year old woman, and so at peace with my “inclusive God”. Just started reading “Everything Belongs” and “Radical Grace”
II wish you a blessed New Year!
I’m glad you put it item seven! As a progressive liberal, in so far as labels are in any way meaningful, your post has prompted me to search my conscience and set the Holy Spirit free to do His work in me while I do the post-festive cleaning. I live in Chandler’s Ford, UK, and during the Week of Prayer for Christian Unity, groups from the 7 churches in this area (6 denominations) worship in each other’s churches so that we can better understand each other’s traditions and ways of worship. We then share these experiences with our own congregations. It all helps to break down barriers and focus on what Christ is really calling us to do.
Hazel – what a very special town you live in! Perhaps if we all visited each others’ places of worship, we would celebrate our similarities rather than our differences – kind of a “both/and” rather than an “either or” situation. I was thinking that would never happen in my small Texas town when I remembered a van load of Methodist teenagers coming to worship at my Catholic church as part of their preparation for confirmation. They visited most of the different churches in our town of 8,000. Seems to me that we Catholics have a lot to learn from our Protestant brothers and sisters.
Seven reasons – a symbolic number of reasons to mistrust literalists stuck on symbols.
An exact description of the english anglican churches and pseudo middle class – one has to be determined to weather the cold shoulders and lack of welcome but we strangers and outcasts are here for Jesus’ sake to thaw the icy hearts with our unpredictableness and love of God. Never give up never surrender, ha ha.
Right on, Richard! Well stated! Thank You!
Keep on keeping on!
Heh: “pelvic issues”. Yep.
And thank you for point 7. One of the reasons I pause to listen to your voice in the daily cacophony is that you do strive “to be fair”. I hear wisdom there.
On “conservative”:
Some years back I signed up for a course on Judaism offered by the RC diocese and taught by a local rabbi. When in the first class he announced he was from the Conservative stream of Judaism I — as a knee-jerk self-defined political/theological ‘liberal’ — mentally blanched and wondered how I was going to get through the weeks ahead. Turned out to be one of the best educational experiences of my life. Brilliant teacher. His explanation of “Conservative” focused on “conserving” what was most valuable in the tradition but also included the idea of being open to change in response to changing circumstances. It reclaimed/redefined that word for me outside the context of what it has come to mean in political circles. (I remain wary of those who wish to “conserve” without the willingness to admit the possibility of any change or re-examination of their position ever…)
“Blind fools”?
I share Fr. Richard’s mistrust of christian conservatism. However, I fear painting christian conservatism with such a broad brush indicts many christian conservatives that may only be guilty of drinking the kool aid they are being fed by their christian leaders.
I know many wonderful christian conservatives who are not the least bit interested in power and money; they love God and we find many ways to relate around that. So maybe at my “level”, my mistrust of christian conservatism leaves me more concerned about my friends and family members who are being exposed to the 6 points Fr. Richard does a good job of illustrating.
It appears to me that the points Fr. Richard makes are of considerably more concern now that my christian conservative friends are now not only being, in my view, misled by their religious leaders, but also by their religious right wing political leaders. I rely on my religious leaders, like Fr. Richard, to confirm my overall mistrust of christian and political conservatism. Frankly, armed with a more enlightened view of God’s Kingdom, I do find my conservative christian friends listening to my view. Of course, like with my children, I don’t get any quick Amen’s; but I hope, again like with my children, they hear more than they would ever allow me to know.
Christ is all, and in all (Colossians 3:11)
of course the exterior often looks quite different!
What I find in Richard’s reflection which I appreciate so much is his ability to see and name the bigger picture and the underlying or real issues. The reason that identifying what is really going on is so important in my mind is that it accurately identifies the starting place for the journey toward unity. No matter how I identify myself, no matter the terminology— whether it is liberal or conservative, Catholic or protestant, this identifies my starting point, my “homeland” as it were from which I am called to grow from. It seems to me that our first failed tendency is to accurately name our starting positions and then our reluctance to leave them. This reluctance and resistance to growth seems at times to more ego driven to defend what I belive rather than an intellectual curiosity to expand my awareness. Thanks Richard for helping me to see and name what is really going on.
Pelvic Issues are a problem. The woman caught in the act of adultery had a pelvic issue and was told not to do that anymore. Pelvic issues seperate one from grace just as effectively as any other sin. One cannot be in union with Christ and and in union with sin at the same time. The first work of grace is conversion, effecting justification in accordance with Jesus’ proclamatiion, “Repent for the kingdom of heaven is close at hand.”
Reblogged this on Persona and commented:
How right is Fr Rohr here!
And this truth is often illustrated on some of the conservative comments on this blog.
Pingback: this went thru my mind |